[MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

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[MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

Alexey Loginov
Hi guys,

In memory of Martin Schreiber needs to consolidate and continue to
develop his projects.
Who has access to his sites, code?
Who will be new leader/leaders of projects.
His projects must live in memory of him!

Let's discuss.

Alex


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

fredvs
Hello.

Yes, of course MSE will stay alive.

I do have access to MSE GitLab for some projects but I am not sure it is a
complete access.

Maybe somebody could clone Martin's projects and leads it.

I will do the maximum I can but I do not have Martin's skills.

It seems to me that MSElang was the future of Marin (and for all of us,
Pascal lovers).

It would be great if we could make MSElang work.

I will jump in MSElang and this will be my goal for next year.

Fre;D



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

Graeme Geldenhuys
On 27/12/2018 11:23, fredvs wrote:
> I do have access to MSE GitLab for some projects but I am not sure it is a
> complete access.
>
> Maybe somebody could clone Martin's projects and leads it.

Yeah, I think only Martin had full commit access to all projects under
the MSE name. He liked to keep tight control. If nobody else has full
admin access, the best way forward would be to simply clone all the
repositories and push to a new public location (on any server or
service) and then commit access can be controlled going forward.
Alternatively, somebody could try and contact Gitlab Support and explain
the situation, and they might give a new person full control (this has
been done many times on SourceForge with abandoned projects).

As for the mailing list. I'm not sure how or where that is managed and
if it can continue running unmanned. If there are any doubts I don't
mind pulling all history of the mailing list and importing it into my
NNTP news server - where I already host a few newsgroups for other open
source projects for over a decade. I used to host a msegui.binary
newsgroup for Martin, so it is no trouble adding a msegui.talk group
with the full mailing list history too.


On a side note:
  I do hope somebody will eventually take up the reins and continue
  development of the MSEide+MSEgui and MSElang projects. Martin chose
  to code them as Open Source projects for a reason.


Regards,
  Graeme

--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

fredvs
Hello Graeme.

IMHO, it would be super-great that you lead the future of MSE.

You do have skill for this (and you are a Git hero).

Also you know MSEgui/ide (you did follow MSEide and use it for fpGUI).

And you will have all my energy/help/exploration/testing for this.

Fre;D



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

Graeme Geldenhuys
On 27/12/2018 12:07, fredvs wrote:
> IMHO, it would be super-great that you lead the future of MSE.
>
> You do have skill for this (and you are a Git hero).

Thanks for the consideration, but respectfully I have to decline. I
simply don't have as much time as I did a few years earlier. Work,
studies and family live consume almost all my time these days.

I'll obviously continue to monitor this mailing list and continue to use
MSEide as my IDE of choice for my Object Pascal based development. I
also don't mind helping with technical aspects of the underlying GDI +
X11 API's as MSEgui and fpGUI use much the same underlying functionalities.

Regards,
  Graeme

--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

fredvs
In reply to this post by Alexey Loginov
Hello.

I see that Patrick Goupell, Mohamed Hamza and me are members of MSE project.

Do you agree to lead MSE project?

Of course if somebody else want to join us, he is more than welcome.

And all advices are also welcome.

Fre;D



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

PatG

On 12/28/18 6:54 AM, fredvs wrote:

> Hello.
>
> I see that Patrick Goupell, Mohamed Hamza and me are members of MSE project.
>
> Do you agree to lead MSE project?
>
> Of course if somebody else want to join us, he is more than welcome.
>
> And all advices are also welcome.
>
> Fre;D
>
>
>
> -

I am a low / intermediate level programmer and do not have the skill set
required.  So I don't think I would be a good choice.

Unfortunagely I think the project will sit as is unless someone outside
of our group comes forward.  After all, if we had the time / skills /
temperament to work / lead the project we would have volunteered to help
Martin in the past.

I don't really recall anyone offering to heflp maintain mseide+msegui. 
Unless they did volunteer but Martin declined the offer.

Patrick



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

Julio Jiménez


El vie., 28 dic. 2018 a las 13:07, Patrick Goupell (<[hidden email]>) escribió:


I am a low / intermediate level programmer and do not have the skill set
required.  So I don't think I would be a good choice.

Unfortunagely I think the project will sit as is unless someone outside
of our group comes forward.  After all, if we had the time / skills /
temperament to work / lead the project we would have volunteered to help
Martin in the past.

I don't really recall anyone offering to heflp maintain mseide+msegui. 
Unless they did volunteer but Martin declined the offer.

Patrick




I use MSEide+MSEgui in production since 2006. I have contributed reporting bugs, translating to spanish, and suggesting ideas. Of course Martin not always accepted my ideas. He never accepted other programmers to contribute directly in the project (no commit access). He wanted to manage by himself. The only help he requested was about documenting with no too much luck.

I hope the project will continue even when it's hard to maintain. I haven't too much free time due work, family... but I'll be glad to help like I have been doing till now.


--
Julio Jiménez Borreguero


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

code dz
In reply to this post by fredvs
2018-12-28 12:54 UTC+01:00, fredvs <[hidden email]>:

> Hello.
>
> I see that Patrick Goupell, Mohamed Hamza and me are members of MSE
> project.
>
> Do you agree to lead MSE project?
>
> Of course if somebody else want to join us, he is more than welcome.
>
> And all advices are also welcome.
>
> Fre;D
>

i am not discouraging but the codebase is really massive and complex ,
and the worst thing is that martin didn't put any comment in his code
, i asked him once about this but he said (i understand my code as is)
.


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

Graeme Geldenhuys
On 28/12/2018 13:18, code dz wrote:
> i am not discouraging but the codebase is really massive and complex ,
> and the worst thing is that martin didn't put any comment in his code
> , i asked him once about this but he said (i understand my code as is)

Martin definitely liked control of MSEide+MSEgui, and nobody else got
direct commit access as far as I know. He did on occasion accept pull
requests. Of the many I sent, some of mine did get past his QA. :-)

One of those was the start of API + Class documentation using the
external fpdoc tool (part of FPC and what FPC uses to document their
classes). That means the code can be documented, but outside the *.pas
files. Thus the *.pas files do not get obfuscated with comments/docs,
but the documentation is still tightly linked to the code. Like Martin,
I prefer to keep the code clean and without documentation - and use
external documentation instead. You can find the start of such
documentation here:

  https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/mseuniverse/tree/master/docs/fpdoc


See the README.txt file for further details.  Some past releases of
generated help can be found on my personal Github page here:

  https://github.com/graemeg/msegui/releases

I generated help in the INF help format, but other output targets can
also be used. eg: HTML, PDF etc.

What I did was every now and then when Martin mentioned something
interesting or not obvious about MSEgui usage, I added such information
as part of the documentation. So over time such documentation will
become more and more useful. Anybody could go over Martin's replies and
keep adding more to the docs - they are simple format XML files.

Like I always say in other Open Source projects I work on, these mailing
lists & newsgroups are a treasure trove of information. A knowledge base
of sorts. So when in doubt, search the past messages for help. Someone
else most likely asked a similar question before. Martin might be gone,
but the huge amount of information he left in this mailing list is here
to stay!


On a side note:
   The other pull request Martin kind-of accepted was my Procedure List
   search dialog for MSEide, which can be found in the 'procedurelist'
   branch - but is 2 years old by now, though I still use it in my own
   MSEide builds.


@Fred:
Do you have commit access to the core MSEide+MSEgui project? Or only to
MSEUniverse?  Does anybody else have commit access to the MSEide+MSEgui
core project?

Regards,
  Graeme

--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

PatG

On 12/28/18 8:40 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
>
> @Fred:
> Do you have commit access to the core MSEide+MSEgui project? Or only to
> MSEUniverse?  Does anybody else have commit access to the MSEide+MSEgui
> core project?
>

I doubt if anyone other than Martin had commit acces.

Perhaps someone could ask Martin's family if anyone has enough computer
knowledge to log onto his coputer and hopefully access the gitlab
account and add some new people to the account.

Patrick



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

Graeme Geldenhuys
On 28/12/2018 13:55, Patrick Goupell wrote:
> I doubt if anyone other than Martin had commit acces.

I'm thinking the same thing.


> Perhaps someone could ask Martin's family if anyone has enough computer
> knowledge to log onto his coputer and hopefully access the gitlab
> account and add some new people to the account.


I would not go down that route - burdening the family even more in such
hard times.

I don't mind contacting Gitlab and explaining the situation and asking
for access to the account. Then when somebody else steps up to take the
lead role in MSEide+MSEgui, I'll hand over the Gitlab account. If all in
agreement, I'll go ahead with this in a day or two.


Regards,
  Graeme

--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

PatG

On 12/28/18 9:16 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
>
> I don't mind contacting Gitlab and explaining the situation and asking
> for access to the account. Then when somebody else steps up to take the
> lead role in MSEide+MSEgui, I'll hand over the Gitlab account. If all in
> agreement, I'll go ahead with this in a day or two.
>
>
I agree.  Perhaps a second person on the account also.

Patrick



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

Roland Chastain
In reply to this post by fredvs
 
Hello.
 
For me I would be glad to contribute if I can.
 
Regards.
 
Roland
Envoyé: vendredi 28 décembre 2018 à 11:54
De: fredvs <[hidden email]>
À: [hidden email]
Objet: Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects
Hello.

I see that Patrick Goupell, Mohamed Hamza and me are members of MSE project.

Do you agree to lead MSE project?

Of course if somebody else want to join us, he is more than welcome.

And all advices are also welcome.

Fre;D



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

Irene
In reply to this post by fredvs
Hello Fre;D
My name is Bruno, I'm Martin's brother-in-law, I want to inform you that we
have found in Martin's documents the pass words for MSEide-MSEgui
sourceforge. In case you have already appointed a new leader (administrator?
supervisor? manager?) for Martin's project, I would sent him the relevant
data.
Kind regards - Bruno




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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

fredvs
> My name is Bruno, I'm Martin's brother-in-law, I want to inform you that we
> have found in Martin's documents the pass words for MSEide-MSEgui
> sourceforge. In case you have already appointed a new leader
> (administrator?
> supervisor? manager?) for Martin's project, I would sent him the relevant
> data.

Hello Bruno.

Sincere condolence to you and all Martin family and friends.
Nice that you have found MSE-gitLab data access.
So this problem is already solved.
Many thanks.

For all the people of good will, positive and courageous that want to
contribute to maintain MSE alive.
Yes, Martin wanted to stay the boss, did not share commit-right to gitlab
easy.

But he was opened to discussion and it was possible to convince him.
Yes, he did prefer to commit code from himself (and not accept pull-request)
but he was honest to add a "Thanks to Julio Jiménez for the fixes"  (huh,
yes I did see it ;) ).

Now about MSE.

MSE is **giant** and I understand that everybody (include me) would be
terrorized to be responsible to resume Martin work.

But maybe we can split the MSE universe.

I am volunteer to maintain MSEide (because of ideU).

I am volunteer to maintain MSElang (because I am a explorer).
MSElang is a **pearl**, Martin has already something working, with RTL and
friends.
I did try it, it works.
But of course I do not have the skill for guru-llvm-thinks and when a
MSElang guru will appear, I will give him the keys.

I am volunteer to maintain MSEgui (because nobody has the balls to take that
responsibility).
But of course if there is people that have those things, please take the
keys.

I am volunteer to maintain MSEsak (because I am already the maintainer).

Other volunteers are of course welcome.

Come on guys, let's be positive, grateful, courageous, respectful and
creative.

Let's make a more happy new year.

Fre;D




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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

mohamed hamza
Hi Fred;s,

I am  very glad that someone has the courage to engage in such complex task. Many thanks.
How do you plane this work?

Best Regards.

Med.

De : fredvs <[hidden email]>
Envoyé : vendredi 28 décembre 2018 21:20
À : [hidden email]
Objet : Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects
 
> My name is Bruno, I'm Martin's brother-in-law, I want to inform you that we
> have found in Martin's documents the pass words for MSEide-MSEgui
> sourceforge. In case you have already appointed a new leader
> (administrator?
> supervisor? manager?) for Martin's project, I would sent him the relevant
> data.

Hello Bruno.

Sincere condolence to you and all Martin family and friends.
Nice that you have found MSE-gitLab data access.
So this problem is already solved.
Many thanks.

For all the people of good will, positive and courageous that want to
contribute to maintain MSE alive.
Yes, Martin wanted to stay the boss, did not share commit-right to gitlab
easy.

But he was opened to discussion and it was possible to convince him.
Yes, he did prefer to commit code from himself (and not accept pull-request)
but he was honest to add a "Thanks to Julio Jiménez for the fixes"  (huh,
yes I did see it ;) ).

Now about MSE.

MSE is **giant** and I understand that everybody (include me) would be
terrorized to be responsible to resume Martin work.

But maybe we can split the MSE universe.

I am volunteer to maintain MSEide (because of ideU).

I am volunteer to maintain MSElang (because I am a explorer).
MSElang is a **pearl**, Martin has already something working, with RTL and
friends.
I did try it, it works.
But of course I do not have the skill for guru-llvm-thinks and when a
MSElang guru will appear, I will give him the keys.

I am volunteer to maintain MSEgui (because nobody has the balls to take that
responsibility).
But of course if there is people that have those things, please take the
keys.

I am volunteer to maintain MSEsak (because I am already the maintainer).

Other volunteers are of course welcome.

Come on guys, let's be positive, grateful, courageous, respectful and
creative.

Let's make a more happy new year.

Fre;D




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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

fredvs
Hello Mohamed.

> How do you plane this work?

I will try to bring together people that has some experience with MSE.

Roland Chastain has already answered that he is volunteer.

Julio Jiménez said that he will help like I have been doing till now.

Graeme will surely help us at beginning for some Git things, like define the
list of maintainers.

Maybe you could be part of the team too?

When the good will team is formed ---> discussion.

Fre;D



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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

Alexey Loginov
> It seems to me that MSElang was the future of Marin (and for all of us, Pascal lovers).

Optional for mseide+msegui and to keep fpc.

> Maybe somebody could clone Martin's projects and leads it.

Needs to commit in upstream in priority.

> As for the mailing list. I'm not sure how or where that is managed and
if it can continue running unmanned.

Martin's family have password for sourceforge, so it will work.

> but the huge amount of information he left in this mailing list is here to stay!

Yes, so it's important to have mirror of mailing list. In past
sourceforge deleted something already, do not trust them, needs to
have copies.

I guess all people who contributed before must have commit access. We
have no leader like Martin, but it possible to develop by team.
MSEuniverse team is team for orhpaned projects with new members.

Needs to copy http://www.msegui.com/ first or to have a control on
domain, hosting

If somebody writes in fpc mailing list, forums, then invite new people in team.

I guess Graeme and fredvs should be organizators of new team together.

Alex


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Destiny of Martin's projects

PatG

On 1/2/19 4:02 AM, Alexey Loginov wrote:
>
> Needs to copy http://www.msegui.com/ first or to have a control on
> domain, hosting

msegui.com is my domain.  I host it on one of my servers.

Patrick



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